State of WWE discussion

[Cena316]

Here is a place to talk about the WWE in general...

[Lover Nuts]

WWE in general isn't doing so well at moment. Everything to do with Kane since 2002 and the state of SmackDown have annoyed me so much. What do you think?

:beer:

[adamjday]

Well the discussion is carrying on from the GAB thoughts thread in many ways, and it kind of drowned that thread, so here it goes. People have been commenting on how the Undertaker on Smackdown! has returned and won't job to people, and also how this has been the case with 'Taker since always. He's been back for three months in total now, and even at Wrestlemania, I don't feel that Kane lost credability. If he did, it was merely a sacrifice for a more valuable superstar, who is needed far more on Smackdown! anyway. That is a point people can't deny. Now, they've also commented on how since Undertaker has returned, he hasn't helped Smackdown! (correct Unknown?). He never once got in the way of the title picture, which has allowed JBL to become a suitable main-eventer now. His two matches with Eddie have been shockingly good. They've been gripping, and exciting which doesn't happen very much anymore. Back to 'Taker, the most interesting stories recently have concerned him, that ain't a coincidence! The stories I'm referring to, the Taker/Kane feud, and this one that seems to have ended now, about the kidnapping (which was helped greatly by the presence of Paul Heyman by the way). And then there was some point about 'Taker being more important than the tag titles or something. As far as I'm concerned, the tag division is non-existant on either show. The titles need to gain credability again, and the Dudleyz may be the ones to do that. Current tag team champions, main-eventing Smackdown! events has got to be a good thing. And the heels Vs face thing always ends in the same way, with the face (e.g. Undertaker) winning. It makes sense for Undertaker to win, and I'm sure that in the near future, the Dudleyz will begin to fight proper tag teams, which should give some meaning to the tag championship. What else was mentioned... I know, Kane Vs Undertaker at Wresltemania. "Kane got squashed". Well that's true, but somebody had to put a stop to Kane at one stage, and I quote...


"you can't rewrite history and a few losses in competitive matches will not hurt".

Couldn't have put it better myself. By the way, Kane is at the top of the RAW roster now again, isn't he? The last thing I'd like to say refers to yet another thing mentioned in the GAB thread. I'd like to make the comparison between a potential Undertaker/Eddie fued and the Kane/Benoit feud. I think that these feuds are bad ideas, as the matches aren't that good, and the smaller guy can't win without making the larger guy lose cred'. And seen as I'm on a roll, a quick stat fact for a certain poster of the month:

Kurt Angle
Height: 6 foot 2
Weight: 220lbs

Eddie Guerrero
Height: 5 foot 8
Weight: 220lbs (Same as Angle??? No way!!)

Source:wwe.com

Still, if my mathematics is correct, which it is, Angle is 6 inches taller than Mr. Guerrero, meaning a significant size difference. Therefore, Angle Vs Undertaker and Eddie Vs Undertaker shouldn't be compared in the way that Angle and Eddie are referred to as the "smaller man".

[Cena316]

well thats another thing. As far as Taker not jobbing. The difference between taker not jobbing and HHH not jobbing is Tker is not keeping anybody from getting tot he top. HHH is. Nobobody can get to the rop on RAW becaue Trips is always there. Taker on the other hand is not jobboing but taker also isnt in the title hunt.

[Y2J World Champ]

Actually the Undertaker did keep Booker T down at Judgment Day. He also (pretty much) destroyed Kane's credibilty at Wrestlemania 20. Also.....well I won't continue but I just wanted to let you know that because even the great Undertaker keeps guys down which is something he shouldn't do because Smackdown is lacking star power so Smackdown needs all the stars they can get, superstars like Booker T and Rob Van Dam are the two best examples.

And of course I'll leave with 1.............2..............3

"Thank You"

[The Kid]

I don't think that the WWE is in really good shape right now. I don' think that in the long run it will hurt them too much as I believe that it's most likely just in a down period. However I don't really think that that can be the only thing that the WWE's lackluster performance can be blamed on. Obviously there are problems with the writing team that must be addressed.

Benoit's title reign has been booked badly but I've seen worse. They make Benoit look strong because he defeats all of his opponents but it seems that he always seems to take a back seat to other storylines such as the Triple H/ Shawn Michaels fued and Eugene. Even Benoit's fued with Kane not only didn't get to headline the PPV, but it seemed that it just basically an extension of the Lita, Matt Hardy and Kane storyline. I fear that it might be too late to fix this problem as I see Trips coming away with the title after the next PPV. If that happens it will be a real shame as Benoit was never really given a proper chance to prove what he can do and I truely believe that if given a proper title reign he could have been really great.

Now on to Kane, a character who came into the WWE amid alot of hype and ever since around 2000 has been fairly stagnant. He got a couple small pushes here and there but overall it was never anything that was all that meaningfull. I think that Kane should be booked simalar to how The Undertaker is now and has been booked in the past. He should be a monster that has no soul and has no conscience. He was booked that way early in his career and that was when he was at his best. Is it just me or when Kane tapped to Benoit on Raw did it not seem like it was that big of a deal? If Kane truely is a monster than it should have been a bigger deal when he tapped.

One of Raw's biggest problems is they're using one wrestler way too much and the fans will start to get sick of him. And no... I'm not talking about Triple H. The man that I am reffering to is Eugene. While I like and respect Nick Dinsmore for doing such a good job with this gimmick, I have to admit it's getting obverused. It's good to see such a talented wrestler getting getting a push but sometimes too much of a push can be just as bad as too little of a push.

The next wrestler I'm going to focus on is Chris Jericho. Here is a man who really has it all. He's great in the ring and absolutely god-like on the mic. Here is a man who hasn't been used correctly ever since he beat The Rock and Austin in the same night. His title reign actually has quite a few paralells with Benoit's title reign. Both started off their reigns very strong be beating two top superstars in the same night but after that they both went downhill and were put on the proverbial back burner in favor of other storylines. In Jericho's case it was a fued between Triple H and Stephanie and Benoit's other storylines have already been explained. Kind of ironic that it was Triple H that harmed both of these title runs.

Even Orton's IC title reign could be done better than it is. He has held the title for quite a while so that adds credibility to the title but the fact that he doesn't defend the title all that much kind of defeats the purpose of the legnthy title reign. I would like to see Orton in more singles matches where he defends his title rather than teaming up with sombody every week.

Now on to Smackdown where picking out it's problems could be quite a task. Ever since the Roster shakeups Smackdown has basically gotten the short end of the stick. It's become a show that has neither the bigger names nor the better wreslters. The only thing that Smackdown does have going for it that could make it compete with Raw is the cruiserweight division.

Smackdown's major problem is their lack of main event stars, but another one of their problems revolves around their biggest star and maybe their only legitamate main eventer. The Undertaker character while not being really built as the top wrestler on the show, doesn't seem to job to anyone. Now I'm not really sure if that is through the writing team telling him not to job or if it's him just flat out refusing to. Either way I think that even if Taker isn't going to lose, he should at least make his opponents look credible in their matches with him. He's become Smackdown's version of The Rock. Very entertaining but never around and given an immediate push as soon as he returns. The Undertaker already probably killed any sort of a push that Booker T was ever going to get. I wish that it had been JBL that got this storyline and Booker got to fued with Eddie and eventually win the title.

And here is another huge problem with Smackdown. Their champion if you really want to call it that. I never thought I'd ever see a wrestler who could make David Arquette's title reign seem like a good idea. But John Layfield proved me wrong. Not only is he horrible in the ring, he's overall just a waste of skin as a person. I think that Bradshaw is someone who's been hired by another company to bring the WWE down. If he has I must say he's done an amazing job. I wish I could say something nice about him but as I think the only thing I can think of that's positive is that someday he's going to die. Yes the fans hate him. So do the workers backstage. Remember the fans hated X-Pac too. Look what happened to him, and at least he could wrestle. It's degrading to see Eddie losing the title to JBL and losing consecutive PPV's to him. I question has Vince just lost it? I mean JBL just came out of nowhere stuck in a going nowhere tag team, the very next week he's a main eventer. How are we supposed to believe that? The only thing I could think of to correct this situation is for Guerrero to take the title back at the next PPV or possibly even sooner contesting that Bradshaw won basically on a technicality or something along those lines and he wants a rematch.

Now the thing that could save Smackdown, the Cruiserweight division. If Vince were serious about trying to save Smackdown then he would realize that the key to doing that is the utilization of the Cruisers. In my opinion Paul London is the most talented wrester in the WWE right now ( including Benoit and Angle) yet for some reason that's unknown to me, he can't even get on Velocity most weeks. Whenever he gets into the ring, the matches are always very good and if given TV time on Smackdown then I think that he could really impress some people. As much as I'd like to see that happen, it won't and just like Spanky before him, he'll end up quiting the WWE. As far as the Cruiserweight championship goes, it should IMO be contended for by every single Cruiser rather than Rey and Chavo being the only ones to ever be in the championship picture. The WWE should take a trip into their video libraries some day and just take a look at WCW's Cruiserweight division. They did this right. The Cruisers were one of the things that made WCW thrive and when WCW was dying, it was pretty much the only thing that kept people watching.

The Whole F'N Show, Mr. PPV, Mr. Monday Night,... Mr. What The Hell Happened Here? When Rob Van Dam debuted in the WWE he was probably the most over face in the company, despite being a heel. Ever since then it's pretty much been all downhill. He hasn't been given a good storyline or a good fued since his thing with Triple H about a year back. Ever since then he was thrown in make shift tag teams with other people that the WWE for some reason or another can't find anything good to do with. The one thing that RVD does have going for him is that he is an upper mid carder so he could be placed in a high profile fued without having to be built up too much. I'd have him get into the title picture as soon as possible maybe in a fued with The Undertaker since RVD was originally beat down by The Dudleyz when they started with Heyman. I'd have RVD beat Taker but get destroyed after the match by Heyman's stable.

Now to the former WWE champion, Eddie Guerrero. I think that putting the title on Eddie was a good idea but it had absolutely terrible execution. Eddie was billed basically as a mid carder losing two PPV's in a row to JBL and fighting the Bashams week in and week out. This will go down as one of the worst handled title reigns in history. I think that Eddie should be the leader of Smackdown until Cena can step up and become that. I'd love to see Eddie regain the title and go on to have memorable fueds with Booker T, RVD and Cena.

Whew, well that's my take on some of the main problems that are facing the WWE right now and how I would solve most of them. My ideas are not perfect, but I'm not a professional like these writers are suppose to be. Is it just me or does it seem like most writers don't even like wrestling?

[Cripplerlock]

I disagree. I do not think Undertaker hurt Kanes or Booker T's credibility. At Wrestlemania 20 Undertaker was making a huge return as the deadman and there was no way he was going to loose that match. Also with the return of the Deadman gimmick it is expected that he would be more dominant in the match. It was highly unlikely that Booker T was going to upset Undertaker either. However neither one has lost any credibility because both are still top heels on their show. Nevertheless, Booker T probably will get a lot more competition from the Undertaker as one of the top heels since they are on the same show.
As for the current state of the WWE, I am starting to feel a little more positive for Raw than Smackdown. Raw was the # 1 cable show for that night a couple of weeks ago, so that is a good sign. The scary thought is a wonder how much a part Eugene played in this. The Eugene gimmick is going well and for some reason he is over probably more than anyone expected. Now that they are using an angle where he is brainwashed by Evolution that could make an interesting storyline. I won't comment on the pregnancy angle with Kane, Lita, and Mat Hardy. I think it will end up as one of those storylines that just mysteriously fades away and they hope we forget about it. Maybe Mat will get a push out of it or maybe he will just get squashed by Kane and Lita will turn heel and say she has been with Kane all alone. Yeah that would be original. On Smackdown people should not complain about the undertaker because they seriously need big star power and the other guys are not on that level yet. Smackdown is more in a growth stage than Raw. Eddie Guerrero may not be a wrestler like a Rock or Ausin that can dominate a show by themselves but despite any size problems he deserved that belt. People always complained about how Vince favored the big guys like Show and the Undertaker. He then gives Eddie that belt and now people are saying he is too small. WWE is probably wondering if the fans will make up their <warning> minds. After all he has done in this business he deserved a title reign. However, that reign is over and now JBL is the champ. Now we get to see what kind of champ he will be. If the fans start giving him that Bossman heat then Smackdown could be in trouble. The WWE title belt has already lost a lot of prestige even though it is once was the dominant belt. Raw's world title has taken that spot even though it was the old WCW belt. However at least the IC and US belts are gaining some credibility thanks to the long reigns by Ortan and Cena. Of course, Orton has had a longer reign and probably has already earned his spot as one of the best IC champs of all time especial because of that match he had with Foley. I really think it takes a good charismatic heel to bring credibility to the IC belt. I can't even remember the last time a wrestler has held the IC belt as long as Orton. However, Edge might be the one to finally take it away from him. Speaking of Edge, as I ramble along, there is someone who has a good chance of being champion this year. I wish I could say the same for RVD, but on smackown he seems to be barely holding on to a high midcarder status. I wonder if 2004 is the year for RVD to go heel.
However, if there is one main problem the WWE has it is still the creative team. It is like they still don't have any long term plans. It always seems to be trial and error, which is why we get angles like Katie Vic and the pregnancy angle. Keep in mind there are probably a few on that teem that probably have more entertainment knowledge than wrestling knowledge and they must think every wwe fan out there is some dumb mark who cares nothing about wrestling. It is not just about Tiple H having creative control it is about the Vince and the management team because they are the ones really in control and allow all this stuff to take place. However this is not all doom and gloom because I seriously think WWE has a much better outlook this year than it did the last.